Roots Interview

Interview by Dan Poarch

Grip Monthly: I read that your parents were traveling musicians. You went on tour with them a lot. So you have been around music your whole life?

Ahmir: All of us have, collectively among the six of us, we have over one hundred years of experience. Each of us has been doing it for at least the last 5 or 6 years of his life.

Grip: You play drums-- do you play anything else?

Ahmir: I think, if given enough time with an instrument I could play anything but percussion’s is my main instrument.

Grip: When I saw you guys play at the boat house down in Norfolk with the Fugees and the Goodie Mob you came on at the end of the night and you were fooling around on the turntables.

Ahmir: Yeah yeah, (chuckling) and battled PrazwellÉ I’m a DJ as well, music knowledge is all relevant. I have a natural rhythm so anything that has rhythm turntables or any type of instrument I can try, at least I’ll attempt it, now whether I’ll master it to the heights of Q-bert or DJ Shadow or Hendrix

Grip: So you give props to Q-bert and DJ Shadow? Let's follow that for a second. My friends up in Charlottesville are all over the illbient-- the Mo-Wax and the DJ Krush, and some the members of the Roots are on DJ Krush's Meiso I was really impressed to see that. Actually that was one of my questions, as far as Hip Hop beats go, where do you see that going?

Ahmir: KRS-One wisely put Hip-Hop in 3 stages. The tape stage, the record stage and the video stage. The video stage has sort of taken things over.

Grip: I don't expect to see DJ Shadow showing up BET's "Rap City" any time soon.

Ahmir: Exactly. A lot of it is underground now. A lot of the purists have been disgruntled. Like fuck it, you know, like forget about it, that’s the word of the moment, forget about it. With Shadow, with Q-bert, everybody in San Francisco as far as the whole collective, I believe the Oakland San Fran is blessed with a lot of talent, where DJ-ing is concerned. I take a personal interest in that because I’m always interested in a creative coup d’Žtat so to speak.

'Cause before San Francisco the best DJs in the world were in Philadelphia. Four of our DJ's were DMC champions. DJ Cheese in ’84, DJ Jazzy Jeff ’88, DJ Cash Money ’88, DJ Mis in ’89, DJ Ghetto made the finals in ’94 but Philadelphia in the ’80s had the incredible DJ style. Hip hop is just very underground. I treat hip-hop like its a girl almost like I’m really dissatisfied with her right new. I’ve just got to make sure that I do my part. Tip says don’t be complaining so much, Q-tip’s always saying that I’m complaining. Moping around like hip-hop stabbed me in the back. I don't want to be like "Et Tu Hip Hop."

I’m really not trying to be like that, I’m just trying to make some good quality music. Yes, we are working on a new joint right now. Which is entitled Things Fall Apart.

Grip: Up in Charlottesville we just had a big hip-hop gathering on Sunday night. Because we have a problem in Charlottesville where we have a limited access to hip-hop because of the excess of violence associated with hip-hop.

Ahmir: Hell! You saw like 3 seconds ago, You were with me! I walk around the bar and some guys said I need to see your bag. I'm like "I'm the artist" Does shit like that always happen down here?

Grip: It’s this thing, its this limited access thing. The promoters don’t want to touch it because they are afraid of the kids. But now we’ve got a new radio show up there on a new public station called the "Boom Box." We have a bomb New York DJ that came down and went to school at UVa and stuck around. That’s the first regular Hip-hop show in Charlottesville and it's blown up.

Ahmir: You can’t stop Hip-hop that's my personal thing. You can do everything you can to water down the market, you can try to R&B-ify everything, but in the end it will go down to the underground and surface like a volcano years later. That’s my opinion. I was really surprised that I got frisked.

Grip: There is a lot of suspicion at hip hop shows.

Ahmir: It never happens where I’m at, you know what I mean. It’s so everyday.

Grip: I’m just trying to understand. It gets strange around here. There is a problem with violence. I’ve run sound for hip-hop bands. In the front row of Public Enemy I almost got dropped.

Ahmir: No, I can believe you. Half the audience takes it literally and the other half the audience takes it vicariously. I never want to use hip-hop as a way to solely educate you. To me all music is something that’s supplemented. People ask you about living your lives. About that whole Biggie-Tupac situation. That whoever shot Biggie and killed Biggie obviously thought he was doing his culture a great service. "I’m going to stop you." Some Mark David Chapman (John Lennon’s assassin) shit, "I’m going to kill you because one of ours is gone so we have to take one of yours."

Grip: People ask me what I think about all that. To me, in a way the deaths are related, East Coast, West Coast. But to me it’s not Hip-hop that’s killing those people, and that's something that Madd Skills said outside. It’s not the artist or Mob Deep pulling up in a White Cadillac, it’s people who think they are carrying out some mission.

Ahmir: But even on top of that I think it's more than an east coast/ west coast, to me its the whole trauma thing that I feel the young black male is going through in the United States. This right here can show you that not only can you get gunned down going to the store to get your mom some eggs, you can get gunned down doing some shady shit, or you can be the worlds most famous rapper and get gunned down as well. The ironic thing is that neither one of these men today have made it to 26. Which is extremely frightening.

Grip: 25 seems to be a cutting off point.

Ahmir: Biggie was only 24, Tupac at least got to say he lived on this earth a quarter of a century. I’m 26, I’m very happy I've reached 26, I hope to make it to 86.

Grip: I asked the DJ at my station, iilscout, where do you see hip-hop going? Underground? I hear that from a lot of your music.

Ahmir: To me Hip hop is gone. As I speak right now, and we’ve been there back and forth every month, Hip-hop is more alive in Europe and Japan than it is in the United States right now. That’s a good thing and that’s a bad thing. It’s a good thing financially at least between the peak years ’83 to ’94 Hip-hop was a means of survival, and you didn’t have to compromise your shit. You know what I mean? You didn’t have to compromise anything because there was no standard and no market place. And then all of a sudden Hip hop gets hit with no-rap work-days on radio stations, so then all of a sudden you got brothers that say, "Instead of fighting the system and doing music that’s true to the art form, I now need to water down my hip-hop." (Shakes head sternly) NOT GOOD. I don’t know what it’s coming to, but I definitely know that there has to be some adjustments made.

Grip: What do you see coming up on the new Roots album after doing three full length albums, with two of them on a major record label. What’s the mode on this one?

Ahmir: The title is When Things Fall Apart Based on my Chinua Achebe’s book (Achebe, Chinua, Things Fall Apart) he was an Nigerian author. This book actually came out in 1959. It is basically a story of a warrior in a village, he was the strongest fighter in his village. Basically, he was a very ambitious warrior and a wrestler, he was very strong in his craft. Almost like a Nigerian Odyssey, he goes away for a very long time. He comes back home and everything has changed. Outside settlers have settled in. Missionaries have come over, their religion is gone, culture is gone. The way of living that had been convenient for him when he was growing up is now gone. This offers comparison shit with the hip-hop thing. We're trying to show how much a travesty the hip-hop thing has become. But I don’t want to be on the level of "Stakes is High (De La Soul’s new album)" on some grumpy old man thing. I tease Pos about that all the timeÉ I call them grumpy old men.

Grip: They have a right.

Ahmir: They have a right, but like an A&R guy told me you can’t complain about the state of your life, and how wack shit is in rap ‘cause while your complaining how stuff is fucked up and how someone is fucking up hip-hop, some kid that is working at McDonalds for $4.75 an hour is listening to your tape saying, "I know this mother fucker talking this shit is fucked up. I’m making fish fillets."

Grip: What do you see with the new Native Tongues situation? The new Jungle Brothers single is tight. I love it to death.

Ahmir: "How You Want I Got It?"

Grip: Africa didn't sound like that on the first album.

Ahmir: Alright! (smiling) Let me give you my low down. I talked to Tip about this last week. I said, "Alright Tip you level with me man. If I’ve been lied to I’m going to be very upset." He said like(imitating Tip's raspy voice) "What are you talking about?" (Making reference to Plug Won's lyric: "The Native Tongues have been officially re-instated")"What reinstatement!? ya’ll ain’t being reinstated. Ya’ll ain’t on their albums they ain’t on your records. And they ain’t on there records. Why have I been lied to, ya’ll haven’t been reinstated there’s a remix but what the fuck. I’ve been gagged. My favorite crew of all times is now like fucked up, I’ve been lied too ya’ll ain’t been reinstated." (Again in Q-Tip's voice)"Let me put it this way..." He gave me some politically correct answer about "hey have kids and wives and ten years ago whatever we did we all did it together, we ate the same foods we all dated the same women. We stayed at each others cribs then things just fell apart." Yeah, things fell apart. But now, I was just saying that isn’t there a way you (Q-Tip) could intervene. I think if you were at a level of acceptance especially the Tribe situation. They were the underdogs, Jungle Brothers established it, and then De La changed it, and then Tribe just came out of nowhere on their first effort even though it is a classic. He actually regards the first and the last album as the albums people didn’t like. The first album was incredible! Then they blew up and over-shadowed and eclipsed both the other groups together, Q-tip’s saying that’s when things fell apart. I was just saying that basically isn’t it a way for you to intervene. On their projects. Say I’m here for you, you know that’s my whole thing. Even with her (pointing to the stereo playing Erykah Badu's album). It’s like when we were doing her product he could never have told me that she was going to go platinum in forty days. They shipped... they just recently just ordered 1.5 million more. Other than the six hundred thousand that she already did.

Grip: What’s fucked up is that I expect a serious six month second coming on that Middle-age white secretary, bank-teller crowd going to get the album.

Ahmir: It’s definitely not done. How long do you think people will take it. Yeah, people will jump on it. But she’s not stupid. People looking for the next thing to jump on. She’ll ride it for as long as she can. The next album is going to be even crazier and stupid. Like this isn’t even what my vision was for this record. But it’s good for a nice little establishment for her.

Grip: Now what did you have to do with (Baduizm)?

Ahmir: We did like four songs. With our association It was like scratching each others back type of deal. You know what I mean? We'll forever do her stuff in the studio. And she’s going to help whenever she can, she’s going to play the lead in our next video. It’s like a back scratching type thing. With them(the Native Tongues) I didn’t see that. On top of that, the original draft for Brain (The next Jungle Brothers single, that Ahmir and company produced) Africa killed like four people... the Jungle Brothers never killed anybody in their songs!! they never had any gats. I don’t know I was a little frustrated we coached them is basically right. "Ya’ll can’t be fucking rhyming like ya’ll were born yesterday. Ya’ll coming back on the market four years later. Ya'll better rhyme like ya’ll are hungry. And do what ya’ll know." Get what I’m saying? I think it’s good but it’s the lesser of two evils. I probably wouldn’t be this critical if I didn’t care about them. I don’t know what the deal is with them internally. I don’t know what they are going through what their experiences are. It’s not what I expected, right, I really wanted to do Straight Out the Jungle, dirty ass, eight-track, tape-machine... Straight Out the Jungle was incredible, timeless...

Grip: To me, I see what a lot of other people do know, I mean all the Illbient stuff, there’ some element to it that I feel that’s Done by the Forces of Nature.

Ahmir: Even before that, I talking about Straight Out the Jungle, right...

Grip: What messes me up about done by the Forces of Nature is that I feel like this is a great product but ...

Ahmir: Gotta ignore it...

Grip: But, Straight Out the Jungle was before it...

Ahmir: Right...

Grip: You know, if you think about it, Done By the Forces of Nature was almost their mature album, they already had one shot at it. I guess what I want to ask you about is hip-hop as a product now. With people like Lil' Kim and Foxy Brown making moves. I mean, somebody like MC Lyte, I mean when I first heard Cha-Cha-Cha, to me that was a female MC, I mean I was down on Queen Latifa and Monie Love, but when I heard Cha-Cha-Cha, that was the shit, it blew me away back in the day and now I hear people going crazy over Lil' Kim and Foxy Brown, I’m like...alright. But the beat is fat and the song with Jay-Z works and she's an alright female MC, but they're products now...

Ahmir: I think maybe we’re getting older, you know what I mean? One avenue that I really want to avoid is sounding like my father. To my father music died in 1977... "Yeah boy, music ain’t the same, Rap..." when he was in Rap, "I was in real music..." And I’m like "Dad you don’t have to remind me." His whole thing is "Son, music died in 1977.", which I agree, the upsurgence of disco definitely didn’t help matters but you know what I mean. It was like, to me, I don’t know...I mean, I’m strugglin’, I’m having so much trouble with myself, and right now I’m trying to see the good and the bad out of everything. It is really hard to take that soap-box position and dis people, damn, how much they going to smoke man...I’m dying in here, you know to take the soap-box position and...you know, "I don’t like her style, la..da...da..da, and she’s corrupt...", I just think that....I’m just strugglin’ with myself just to see the good and the bad in everything. You know, there’s something I like about Biggie that I agree with, and there’s something I don’t like about Biggie. And there’s something that I like about Foxy and I don’t like about...you know what I’m saying? So, a yin for yang type thing.

Grip: My friend Rob who did some work up in New York City, working for Pete Rock a lot, came down here to school...he’s been hanging out down here for a while now, said, He said Fugees are the roots of the future of Hip-Hop, and iilscout, a DJ that’s working for him said that underground is the future of true hip-hop, and I see that with ya’ll, you’re like this bridge between the underground, I mean you’re first album came out of nowhere for me, and well, I still haven’t found Organix...

Ahmir: Right, right, right, no you’ll see it this year...it has arrived.

Grip: Damn, I still want to go to a UK record store so that I can say that I have it.

Ahmir: No, no, no we only sold it there but they all came from Philadelphia, you know what I mean? Like the original pressing...

Grip: I'll try to stay away from the Fugees thing because I've heard that there's beef...

Ahmir: There's no beef, I'm a vegetarian... (Laughing) But seriously, there's no beef.

Grip: I know that when I saw you guys, you guys came correct to the stage, all the mics had cords on them, while everyone else had cordless mics, you came on the stage you performed, it was clean...it was a show. The Fugees came on...Wyclef yelled some shit at a sound man on the stage as he was fixing Wyclef's microphone... and I see you guys as sort of like this thing that Hip-Hop hasn't seen...

Ahmir: They still aren't seeing it.

Grip: They're not. My question is...Do you expect the Roots... the Fugees I could see as being the next big thing and I see people rushing to buy the next Fugee’s album...I don’t see people rushing to buy the Roots album, which is unfortunate. What is ya’ll’s game plan, I think..I see where you guys are not just standing there, you’re not going to be...

Ahmir: It’s going to be...like the only scary thing about rap music is only on two situations...only in one situation have I seen a mid-resurgence...like an album has come back to life...Salt-N-Peppa’s Hot Cool and Vicious was the only album I know that was to die and because of Push It and they reprinted it and it came back to life. I don’t know any Hip-Hop versions of REM or...you know what I mean? Or...Well, The Unforgettable Fire was Platinum, even though everyone considers Joshua Tree their moment, like the Hip-Hop version of U2, ...you know we are indeed the first example of that. You know that’s the hope I have. Sometimes I do get frustrated when I see people doing some shit that I’m doing, at a lesser quality that I’m doing, and not even getting paid for it but just being declared God. You know what I mean, like almost...oh God, it was a religious experience. I can’t tell you how many times I have read reviews on certain acts, and I was like, man what the fuck? Or I’ll look at year-end issues and it’s basically about people that sold the most.

Grip: Like Vibe...I don’t like Vibe a whole lot.

Ahmir: Ahhhh whatever...

Grip: I mean you guys were blown up in a three page spread in the Source, or a six-pager I guess, and Vibe's got a sidebar next to a two-page spread photograph.

Ahmir: Yeah..I would rather have words than a photo...

Grip: It seems like the industry likes you guys, ‘cause, you’re like a commercial...I don’t want to say that you’re commercial...but I mean you’re...

Ahmir: I mean there’s nothing wrong with being commercial...I don’t believe it’s...

Grip: You’re underground-- that’s accessible and they like that and they keep you there. Because the Fugees aren't underground.

Ahmir: No, they’re not any more...Our plan of attack, because this is a business...there are definitely things that we want to do, I mean there’s studios that we want to open as businesses, and this stuff doesn’t fall out the sky. You know, first of all, personally we’re all getting like a little bit broken down, but just the overall positioning of how our lives have been, we’re working 300 days out the year, you know, the thing is you have to scramble for five dollars just so you can stay a float, yet if you’re album is more and more successful maybe you would only have to tour for maybe four months and then relax. And that’s something that’s total...I’m fat on...for me to tour for just four month’s, and that’s making enough money to float me up the year so I can create, you know, and relax. Meanwhile, we have to work ten months out the year straight, just to survive. So all of this know, you know the whole association thing, we’re always going to work with her, I’m always working with D’Angelo. It’s like the world will never stop, you know what I mean, we’re just doing remixes out the ass, we’re doing Sweetback this weekend, Adriana Evans, Bahamadia's next record, which is called B Girl Sessions, who else is left? I’m sorry, our group is going to bust everyone’s ass, you heard it here first. The Jazzy Fat Nasty’s...

Grip: I’ve been hearing a lot about them...I’ve been trying to track down there earlier stuff...

Ahmir: Tommy Boy...we’re going to make them eat their words. The world wasn’t ready in 1994....

Grip: Tell me about the Jazzy Fat Nasty’s..what...

Ahmir: They are the future...

Grip: What do they do?

Ahmir: They are...a collective of singers...females, three females from California that were formally under the Pharcydes' tutelage until I seen them one night and jacked them literally. Gave them plane tickets the next week and was like yo, ya’ll are moving into my house and I don’t care...and Pharcyde was like "Bye, Bye", I literally stole them from the Pharcyde, like I moved them into my crib, we got them a publishing deal now, and right now they’re in a crazy, ugly-ass bidding war. We can hold out for maybe a year, wait for money of Trump proportions or just get started now, but, they’re going to break the rules. I predict they’re going to break the rules of what female singers should be about. Like to me they’re so...cutting edge. A lot of that had to do with the producer they had, Jay Swift, which did the Pharcyde’s first record. He’s such a free soul with his productions. He is so free with his productions, so incredible that, you now I just thought that...just imagine three girls singing on top of the Pharcyde’s instrumentals, that’s how it was. They’re crazy, they just have an angle, they’re like the thinking women’s group. I’m not tooting our own horn, but we’re not going to associate with anybody else, or some knuckle-head shit. So, they’re definitely the thinking women’s group. So...I’m going to have to go in a little bit because we have to go to the hotel...no, I mean you can ask me more...

Grip: What else do you listen to, I mean outside of Hip-Hop, you can be too Hip-Hop centric sometimes, what do you guys like to put on?

Ahmir: I listen to any and everybody. I listen to a lot of...What I do, not even for research purposes but, I read a lot of critical compilations, whatever so...Whatever is critically acclaimed, whatever record that was declared master-piece status in the past four years I own. I just like to study and see what tickles the critics fancy.

Grip: I see the Live cover on a CD...

Ahmir: They’re my label-mate so I got that for free.

Grip: Are you looking forward to the Beck thing?

Ahmir: Am I looking forward to it?...Yeah, because I’m a genuine fan of Beck, but I would really look forward to more, if I could at least have three days off. Literally...I’ll run it down to you from the beginning. December ‘93 we went immediately to work after we signed at Geffen, work from then until April, went to Europe from April of ‘94 till September of ‘94, came back and shot two videos, went back to Europe in October ‘94 stayed ‘til January of ‘95, finally released album in the States, toured until March, and then from March until June of ‘95 went back to Europe, from June of ‘95 ‘til September did Lollapalooza, from September ‘95 until June of ‘95 ended up touring in the States and Europe but mainly concentrating on doing IlladelphHalf-Life. June went back to Europe, from June until August stayed in Europe, September released IlladelphHalf-Life, toured, toured until once a year for a week in December, came back January did major touring stuff, did the What They Do video, January went to Europe, February came back home, March went to Europe, just came back home, next month we do the whole Beck thing, then May we go back, notice I didn’t say take a break, May of ‘97 we go back to Europe and Japan this time, then we do Smokin’ Grooves, I’m sorry we’ll start working on the next album, do Smokin’ Grooves from July to September work on the Jazzyfatnastees and Dice Raw at the same time, and then go on tour again with Tribe until December, and then we’ll try to have Things Fall Apart out by February. Just do it over and over and over, so there’s really not a break. Literally, I’m lucky if I’m home for a week's period I’m working on something. But just for me to do nothing care-free for like a week is all that I ask for. So I’m a big admirer of Beck and I look forward to it, but God Damn it I want a break.

Grip: What uh...just real quick just on the Beck stuff. What do you think the guys like, would like Beck...I mean Beck is..

Ahmir: At first I didn’t buy it...

Grip: See, I didn’t either. When I first heard Loser I wasn’t sure, but my friends, they’re all over Beck, I respect their tastes so...

Ahmir: I didn’t buy it at first, you know, and when I bought this album, when I bought it... when I took it from the office, I was impressed with it. Sometimes I tend to wonder, if I made that same exact record, would it get all the acclaim that it’s getting. Like I don’t know how much it’s it’s lifestyle lock, just weirdo-eccentric from nowhere just coming up with this stuff, you know I generally admire him as an artist and as a performer, he’s a very intense performer, so I like Beck.

Grip: There just seems to be a lot more people like Beck and G-Love and Special Sauce...

Ahmir: Now that’s one group that just missed it. Missed the boat. Something about Philly man, when you’re from Philly you get gagged. G-Love and Special Sauce, we knew about them, we almost started managing them, we knew about them back in 1990. Their work was incredible, the stuff that they were doing when we first seen them. And even, it's funny, I never thought I would be saying this but, the Goats, like when I first heard of the Goats I was like, "What the fuck is this?", you know what I mean, like, but they where so ahead of their time...the stuff that they did from ‘91 to ‘92 to ‘93, could have easily fit into today with Rage Against the Machine and Sublime, and you know what I mean, it’s like all this stuff that’s out now, they where just to early for the market, you know.

Grip: I didn’t know they where from Philly. A friend of mine went to school with G-Love in Saratoga Springs...

Ahmir: Boston, right...No, no, no they relocated from Philly.

Grip: I grew up in Bucks County..

Ahmir: Oh...word..alright.

Grip: If you wanted to see something in print, what would it be saying in print?

Ahmir: (Yawns)...no, I’m kidding. Nothing. I think I covered everything.

Grip: What do you think of the rest of the band? I mean is it...

Ahmir: Oh, you mean these guys?

Grip: Yeah, I mean you guys seem to get along real well.

Ahmir: Yeah we have to because we’re together. We’re just like any surrogate family, you know, there’s conflicts, there’s arguments, there’s...now we just know...well all of us are focused enough to say it’s a business and we have to keep our shit together and you can’t be catching feelings over something when we all are trying to reach this collective goal. You can have an argument with someone right before you go on stage, but when you’re on stage, you check all egos at the door...and you have a product to sell. Oh, I would also like to see in print that we are not jazz-hip-hop. That’s the important element right there.

Grip: Hip-Hop jazz allowed?

Ahmir: No, I mean we’re a band. See the thing is people have to...people really can’t categorize us so they don’t know what to call us because there’s instrumentation...I’ll tell you what, are you going to watch the show? I’ll let you see the show tonight and you tell me what we’re more of. To me we’re just...

Grip: Well my friend is a jazz drummer, a straight-up jazz drummer...

Ahmir: Well, I’m a drummer, and I am like a drummer to the bone, but I’m not a jazz drummer. I mean, yeah, I’m a drummer. I just don’t want to be categorized like the "thinking man’s rap group," because that’s going to scare people. I would just rather be a regular outfit, even though I know that we’re not. So, you know...

Grip: Well, to me, the Roots...no one pays attention to this, to me, to the Roots, legitimizes the street-level hip-hop, to a crowd that might not accept it because it’s presented with, the instrumentation...

Ahmir: The whole, yeah...

Grip: ...that the other group is used to. But they still can’t handle it.

Ahmir: Um, yeah, I really want to reveal the album. I’ve never seen like a passive-aggressive review before. This review was a bad review, but I never saw a bad review about an album that got called a masterpiece. Like he said straight-up, "Let me start by establishing that this album is a masterpiece, like it’s an incredible masterpiece", this is Vox magazine over in England, so he is going on and on about the record. He’s like "incredible record, the Roots are the smartest group," you know so he’s going on and on and on and on, praising it, praising it mad, mad, credibility, he’s lodging it, in the last paragraph, "But unfortunately, the Roots are just too smart for their own damn good." And...you know, basically, they’re too smart, like this album is too good for the average hip-hop head and..."they come to you like a tuxedo in a neighborhood where only baggy jeans are..." well, that’s a slap in the face to me, because that says what, that we aren’t allowed to be intelligent or we got to appear to some sort of ignorant-ass way for us to get accepted. I mean he just totally contradicted, I mean he gave us a seven out of ten, but to me, like don’t say, this is a masterpiece of an album, one of the best releases you heard this year, and then give us a seven. Like I don’t know, he then turned around and gave her(Erykah) a nine the next day.

Grip: I guess that’s one of the problems with hip-hop, you know I like to meet artists and talk to them, like Biz Markie. It’s the stereotype that people fall for when they see a black man in baggy jeans, in the ghetto...

Ahmir: Right...right..

Grip: ...you know, they immediately...you know I fall for it... I was raised by the media, I’d fall for it too and I think that’s one problem that the Roots have. You don’t come out like the Fugees, where you know, people can say, ouch, I like the Fugees, it’s all very literate, all very this and all very that. And the Roots come to you with the baggy jeans, but come to you with a message...you know I don’t want toot your horn too much, but...

Ahmir: No, I agree, I see it, except, people are going to have turns. We’re just in an age now where everything is like some fast food music...my foot's falling asleep...like a fast food music attitude that people are taking. It’s sort of like, there’s not spoon fed to you in some sort of like cliff-notes fashion, people are just not getting it, you know what I mean, so...I don’t know, it sort of like a mid-point with us. I’m not saying that a compromise is coming up, because that would be, that would be just a gag, you know, I hate it when people compromise like, Prince is definitely compromised, you now. So it’s like, I don’t know with us, it’s...people will eventually get it, it’s just going to be a slow build, you know, it’s going to be on some R.E.M. shit, you know, wait ‘till album number 7 before people take notice.

Grip: Do you guys..do you like R.E.M.?

Ahmir: I love R.E.M. personally.

Grip: A lot of hip-hop artists out there find R.E.M. records a dull thing.

Ahmir: But no, you just listen to good music, like lookin’ through, Ali and Tip's collections is something that we just listen to in our spare time. We’re all basically the same. Like you know, well there’s the records, that so many good albums out there that aren’t even discovered. There’s this Latin group, there’s this group from Cuba, sort of like a, Latin version of Take Six, called Vocal Sampling, incredible....like, I won’t even describe it to you, I’m saying you kill what ever you order, they’re on Warner Brothers Records called Vocal Sampling, you buy it and drop you’re jaw later. Like that, and just new stuff. I love soul music, Marvin Gaye. Right now I’m going through..like I go through different periods, so I’m in my rock period right now, like I’m, you know, just like every quarter of the year, I’ll pull out something, so...I’m getting back into Zeppelin and...

Grip: I haven’t brought myself back to Zeppelin. I was way down with Zeppelin in ninth and tenth grade but,...

Ahmir: See, yeah, that was forced because of the school I went to, that was forced down, because they were like, "Yo man, they’re incredible", but I’m like fuck Led Zeppelin, I hate Led Zeppelin. To me Houses of the Holy is an incredible album, that and Physical Grafitti are two incredible records. This is two albums I’m really trying to get into just as far as how they were critically acclaimed that I really can’t get into. And that’s, a really, really, really, trying, at least I’m trying to understand Exile on Main Street, I’m trying to understand it, like I appreciate, you know like, every review that I read of this, like you know, sounds like it was made in a garbage can, well underground like, I’m trying to appreciate it, but I’m not getting it quite yet, but I’m forcing myself to listen to it.

Grip: You’re asking the wrong guy about the Rolling Stones.

Ahmir: Like for the life of me, I would love to see, I don’t mean this sarcastically, but I want to see what they see in them, I would really like to see what people see in Springsteen, like I’m really trying. You know I got everything, from Nebraska to like, I’m really trying to understand, you know and I’m using Rolling Stone as a guide. I’ll just go to the Library and get record review clippings to see. You know, they give ‘em five stars, so obviously that was classic Springsteen or else, you know the whole album is a classic hits collection, so you know, I’m just trying to get into it. There’s one album I got into, that I tell everybody about, like incredible. You ever heard of Pet Sounds, Beach Boys?

Grip: No...I can’t wait until my editor hears this tape. He’ll trip out on you.

Ahmir: Yo, you like Los Lobos?

Grip: I love Los Lobos...

Ahmir: The last album, Colossal HeadÉ

Grip: That was great....you got the last..

Ahmir: Slapped on..no the sound track?

Grip: No, no, no...take my word on this, I’ll even write it down for you... Latin Playboys.

Ahmir: I heard of it...

Grip: It’s David Hidalgo and um...god, now I can’t think of the other names...but it’s a side project of theirs and it’s all of this low-fi sampling, crazy shit.. . If you took, like on Kiko...

Ahmir: Oh, My God, Kiko, that’s like, I bought like four copies of that shit...

Grip: If you took the strangeness of Kiko, distilled it and purified and then took it and then listened to Kiko and Colossal Head and can you see this weirdo stuff in between. It’s Latin Playboys and this shit is out of hand.

Ahmir: Can you tell me is How Will the Wolf on the same level as that? ‘Cause I first heard of Los Lobos because of How Will the Wolf Survive.

Grip: That’s more like...rock, blues, rhythm and blues, like straight-up 50's rhythm and blues.

Ahmir: So like what Chris Isaak will do, sort of on that level? Right, see I first heard of them, as most people do, like on the La Bamba soundtrack, at which, when I first started reading all this stuff on Kiko, I was curious as to why they are getting so much acclaim, then um...what do you call it?...I saw the video to Kiko, and three blind mice said, ummm, umm, umm. Like that shit was incredible and I was like, the sonic texture, sounded like, it was real compressed. I wanted to steal the engineer. That was like the best kept secret. That album was like my favorite album, definitely like my favorite album of ‘94. Then when Colossal came out, crazy incredible, just how they did, like they put the right compression on, like them and Lenny Kravitz, they put the right amount of compression on to over-exaggerate the ‘70s feel to it, incredible. They’re definitely underrated. And I don’t feel to bad when some of the people I really admire get slept on, and I don’t feel personally that bad when, like Los Lobos, Wendy and Lisa, they’re definitely stepped on,... Kool KeithÉ (Dr. Octagon, formerly of Ultramagnetic MC's).

Grip: Have you thought about doing work with Los Lobos? Somebody like that?

Ahmir: Yeah, but I would just like to sit back and watch. I don’t know what I could personally add because, everything that I would add is something they would do already. Now if they were one of the groups that I don’t have to...sometimes like something frustrated won’t happen, you’ll later an artist that you like, and you wish that you could add this keyboard line-up, do the drums different, but with them, I like, I would like to steal their engineer or just watch a session. That’s what I want to do.